"agedest" <berdid@wmconnect.com> wrote in message news:1193064625.499282.18230@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > Something I'm seeing too much of may not be so common where you climb, > but I bet it is if you climb where beginners are taken to learn about > outdoor climbing. I've never been in a climbing gym, where this may > be the norm, and I think it is a natural part of doing climbing for > groups. Whoever is on the rock is being constantly advised and > encouraged. OK and good. > The people urging them on feel very "good about themselves" for being > so "positive" and supportive. But what about the climber? I think > too often the climbers are being pushed too far beyond their ability > and comfort. That can be dangerous or at least hazardous, Dangerous? Assuming they'r beginner, so not leading I don't see it. >and does > not necessarily make for "a good experience" to force them to love > themselves and climbing. It can be more in the direction of > traumatic, being pushed toward too much fear and helplessness. I've > seen especially girls literally begging to be let down, almost in > tears. This is different. The more the beginner is pushed, the greater the failure when > they do give up. The more people cheering them on, the more people > the climber fails to please if the top is not achieved. ... > Not for me, and not for a lot of people we won't see at the rock > again. It is a big part of why the rocks are so crowded and getting > worse. Believe it or not, I see this less than I used to - and I think it is precisely because climbing has become more mainstream. I see many very supportive groups at the places I climb whereas I used to see boyfriends dragging girlfriends along with outcomes as you describe. Those outcomes still occur I'm sure, but even then, more often the boyfriend girlfriend pair have friends along and it less likely to get ugly.

In article <472b8bee$0$483$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>, Paulina <gavastik@yahoo.com> wrote: >just happy to be talking to this esteemed forum... Esteemed? A Usenet news group? --

> I'll also throw out there that I question if having one or >more people saying stuff like, "put your foot there and stand up on >it" is really helpful to a rank beginner. I hate noise. I get turned off by "You can do it" type stuff, especially when it's loud. On the other hand, somebody watching has a different point of view and they can often suggest things that don't seem obvious to the climber. Is that nubbin on the left good for anything? Try leaning left so you can layback off the right hand. You need another inch. Can you move your foot over? ... -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.

"Hal Murray" <hal-usenet@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net> wrote in message news:Bd6dnen1i6mVYqnanZ2dnUVZ_hninZ2d@megapath.net... >> I'll also throw out there that I question if having one or >>more people saying stuff like, "put your foot there and stand up on >>it" is really helpful to a rank beginner. > > I hate noise. I get turned off by "You can do it" type stuff, > especially when it's loud. > > On the other hand, somebody watching has a different point of view > and they can often suggest things that don't seem obvious to the climber. > > Is that nubbin on the left good for anything? > Try leaning left so you can layback off the right hand. > You need another inch. Can you move your foot over? > ... > > -- > These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. > Useful encouragement is an art. I can't manage to spew the "you can do it" kind of stuff, but I have to admit that occasionally it has given me the motivation to get through a hard move or two. Most importantly it has to sound really genuine - it's an art. The most important part of this skill is knowing when to keep quiet. I give credit to those who can actually help me climb this way, and I wish I had their skill!

>Much more recently in the Nesakwatch it was me weak from fear under a >presumably unclimbed corner bristling with possibly loose flakes toward >the top of a route further from the road than I like to be. ... How can anything be too far from the road? That just makes it more of an adventure. I can run away from loose junk even if it's right next to the road. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.

>>Much more recently in the Nesakwatch it was me weak from fear under a >>presumably unclimbed corner bristling with possibly loose flakes toward >>the top of a route further from the road than I like to be. ... In article <366dnVVLPbumotPanZ2dnUVZ_rLinZ2d@megapath.net>, Hal Murray <hal-usenet@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net> wrote: >How can anything be too far from the road? That just makes it more >of an adventure. You should have come to the film last evening about flying to Greenland and the Antarctic. >I can run away from loose junk even if it's right next to the road. Depends at what stage of the acceleration. --