Le 27 Nov 2007, Clint Hunter <ciceroii@rogers.com> a écrit : > One myth believed by many ignorant Canadians is that medicare is > basically free. It is not. It cost a whopping $100 billion a year. > That is a huge expense for taxpaying Canadians. One myth believed by many ignorant rednecks (american and canadian alike) is that the US system is superior. It is not. For the same per-capita pricing, only 60% of americans are insured. And "insured" does not means that he'll never be denied treatment by a private insurer. Another fact widely ignored by detractors of the canadian system is that the canadian system ovehead is only 5%, whereas in the US, it is upwards of 30%. Another ignored fact is that the US medical system overburdens doctors with paperwork and red-tape. > Another myth is that Canadian medical care is equal and fair for all. > This is not true in that hundreds of thousands of Canadian get private > medical services in the U.S. Of course, they pay out of their own > pockets for this superior care but why should they not be able to do > that in Canada? It makes no sense. It makes a lot of sense. Forcing EVERYONE to use the system effectively prevents the system from being gutted by the rich. > The above facts were stated in a recent newsletters by Canada's > NCC. Neo Conservative Cretins???

Le 27 Nov 2007, Clint Hunter <ciceroii@rogers.com> a écrit : > Here is an article from this morning's National Post. "Specialist > Shortage Assailed". The National Post. Hardly a reliable source of news…

Le 28 Nov 2007, Well Done <WellDone@WellHoned.com> a écrit : > By the same token, kid, "not insured" does NOT mean "no access to > medical care". Just ask some of the millions of illegal immigrants in > the U.S. who leave hospital without paying the bill. The hospital is > NOT allowed to refuse emergency treatment. And the losses incurred are passed-on to the paying public… As you use the term "illegal immigrant", you are clearly a yankee shill. Now that you’ve been exposed, you can crawl back under that rock you came from. -- C’est pas dieu qui fait chier, c’est son criss de fan-club plein de cons - Parce que ça force à lire à l’envers. - Pourquoi? - Les gens qui répondent en haut du texte qu'ils citent. - C'est quoi la pire chose sur Usenet?

"Jean Naimard" <jean.naimard+Usenet@google-VosClaques.com> wrote in message news:Xns99F6F0C362781MangezTousDeLaMarde@64.192.187.7... > Le 28 Nov 2007, Well Done <WellDone@WellHoned.com> a écrit : > >> The US system is used routinely by Canadians, which kinda makes you >> look like you're full of shit. > > So? A tiny minority of rich people do; they hardly represent a significant > cross section of society. You don't have to be rich. Just take a vacation in the US. US health care will cover Americans in Canada and abroad but Canadians going south are in essence without coverage unless purchased or paid seperately. It is because the Canadian health care cards are useless in the US. > How many patients are dumped because they don't have insurance? > > With the canadian universal health-insurance system, every hospital is > paid > for the care given. > > Therefore, the canadian system is superior to the US. Simple logic from a simplton. But it is the best part of Canada's system, universiality. But after that... it sucks. >> "Gutted"? Oh, yes, theres' that lefty standard word. You freaks have >> plenty of them, dont 'you? The "rich" don't "gut" the system, kid... >> they pay for it. Almost all taxes are collected from the top 25% of >> earners in Canada. > > Which is normal, they can afford to pay such high taxes. He is right. The middle class to upper middle class in Canada pays most of the taxes. But it also shows the paracitical nature of how many people in Canada think. > This is called a "progressive" taxation system. Note that in > "progressive", > there is the word "progress", wich means gradual improvement or growth or > development; "advancement of knowledge"; "great progress in the arts". > "Progress" is the contrary of "conservative", which means "stagnation". I prefer agressive-represive taxation myself. By taking people more, any class, it leaves less money for people to spend. Less money in circulation generation jobs for services and wealth. Ever wonder why middle class Americans have boats and toys far more than Canadian's do? That extra taxation is raping the wealth. >> Only the public sector unions and their paid chorus line are against >> allowing two-tiered medicine in Canada. We know that because there is > > As well as the population. They know very well the hell americans have to > endure whenever it comes to their own health. They certainly don't want > the > same system. > > Notice that the most extreme right wingnut politicians avoid talking about > a two-tiered health-care system? Because they know very well that doing so > would amount to political suicide. > > There is absolutely no way anyone will convince the voting canadian public > that the american system is better than the canadian one. > > No way at all. Neither system is without it's warts. But by the way you write I can tell you haven't used or been under the American system. Don't worry, you are in the majority of who write in this NG about health care. They know jack squat about the US system but are good minions. Being a Canadian, and having lived on both sides of the border, having used and paid for both systems for extended periods; 90% of the ra-ra Canadian/bash the US system is mindless repetitive BS. It is myopic hyperbole. The only good thing about the Canadian system is universality and less paperwork for the client/patient. The best system would be an amalgamation of the two. I like the direction some US states are going with this. Sur-taxes on companies and people who do not have health care. And unlike Canada, the taxes are not mixed into general revenue and siphoned off for other pet projects by the controlling aristocrats. For example, how many Canadians know that less than 10% of the federal tax dollar goes to health care in any form? Yet for years the politicians have justified higher, and ever higher taxes for it? They use this to control us. Health care should be a separate deduction on our cheques and not mixed in with port spending. The following is generally true for 85% or more Americans: US: Taxes + Health Care is less than Canada taxes Americans don't wait in line for three reasons. First their system is better funded to needs. If a shortage of cat scan time occurs, they get another one. If they need more of a service, they get it. Second is what I call clutter. You don't see people waiting in the medical places with snivels and ingrown toe nails. That is, low end abuse is addressed by deductibles. Finally, they have to compete. If they can't provide the services, then you can at the end of your term switch to another provider or plan. Canada only has one provider and no competition to server patients. And those that think Canada has equal access, in my absence abroad this has changed. By chance my mother and I needed the same operation at the same time in the same city. While being elective, it could affect my employment if not addressed. In any case, the operation represented a high yield of quality of life for us both to get it done. I waited 5 weeks. My retired low income mother waited 14 months. The regional Canadian health care authority simple looked at my tax revenue as the deciding factor and prioritized it accordingly. Average wait for US citizens to get this done, 2 days. Go figure.

"Jean Naimard" <jean.naimard+Usenet@google-VosClaques.com> wrote in message news:Xns99F6F0FA7172MangezTousDeLaMarde@64.192.187.7... > Le 28 Nov 2007, Well Done <WellDone@WellHoned.com> a écrit : > >> By the same token, kid, "not insured" does NOT mean "no access to >> medical care". Just ask some of the millions of illegal immigrants in >> the U.S. who leave hospital without paying the bill. The hospital is >> NOT allowed to refuse emergency treatment. > > And the losses incurred are passed-on to the paying public. It occurs in Canada too.

Le 29 Nov 2007, "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> a écrit : >> So? A tiny minority of rich people do; they hardly represent a >> significant cross section of society. > > You don't have to be rich. Just take a vacation in the US. I know a girl whose father died on vacation. When she called the hospital to get the body, she was extremely lucky: the girl she talked to told her never to claim the body, because they gonna sue her for the unpaid care… So she wasn’t allowed to bury her father because otherwise, she would have lost her house. > It is because the Canadian health care cards are useless in the US. So said Captain Obvious. > He is right. The middle class to upper middle class in Canada pays > most of the taxes. > But it also shows the paracitical nature of how many people in Canada > think. It is not parasital, but social. That’s the way our society works. Everyone does his part according to how he can. > I prefer agressive-represive taxation myself. By taking people more, Whatever. Typical right wingnut newspeak. > any class, it leaves less money for people to spend. Less money in > circulation generation jobs for services and wealth. Ever wonder why > middle class Americans have boats and toys far more than Canadian's > do? That extra taxation is raping the wealth. At the cost of tremenduous social suffering. This is a cost the canadian taxpayers have repeatedly refused to pay. After all, money is only money. But your health… And the social peace… Those are priceless things. >> No way at all. > > Neither system is without it's warts. But by the way you write I can > tell you haven't used or been under the American system. Don't worry, > you are in the majority of who write in this NG about health care. You’re just very lucky not to have been denied treatment for whatever bureaucratic reason US health "insurers" are notorious for… Just wait… > Being a Canadian, and having lived on both sides of the border, having > used and paid for both systems for extended periods; 90% of the ra-ra > Canadian/bash the US system is mindless repetitive BS. It is myopic Sure, sure. But of course, we can’t expect you to explain precisely why the US system would be better than the canadian one, eh? > hyperbole. The only good thing about the Canadian system is > universality and less paperwork for the client/patient. > The best system would be an amalgamation of the two. I like the > direction some US states are going with this. Sur-taxes on companies > and people who do not have health care. And unlike Canada, the taxes Yes, yes, more social segregation according to wealth. > politicians have justified higher, and ever higher taxes for it? They > use this to control us. Health care should be a separate deduction on Ah, a libertarian wingnut! He’s afraid of someone else "controlling" him… > our cheques and not mixed in with port spending. > > The following is generally true for 85% or more Americans: > > US: Taxes + Health Care is less than Canada taxes Oh? Families certainly don’t pay $600 per month in taxes to get "insured" up here. And they certainly don’t get denied treatment when they need it… > Americans don't wait in line for three reasons. First their system is > better funded to needs. If a shortage of cat scan time occurs, they > get another one. If they need more of a service, they get it. Second > is what I call clutter. You don't see people waiting in the medical > places with snivels and ingrown toe nails. That is, low end abuse is > addressed by deductibles. Finally, they have to compete. If they > can't provide the services, then you can at the end of your term > switch to another provider or plan. Canada only has one provider and > no competition to server patients. The usual libertarian chitchat about competitiveness. Competition is only good in a free market. But the market in the US is far from being free; it is tightly controlled by the industry which makes sure that there are tremenduous barriers of entry to prevent newcomers. > I waited 5 weeks. My retired low income mother waited 14 months. The > regional Canadian health care authority simple looked at my tax > revenue as the deciding factor and prioritized it accordingly. > Average wait for US citizens to get this done, 2 days. Go figure. And in the US, none would have got the operation. You, because you could not afford to pay for it (and your insurance would not pay for it either), and your mother because no one would insure her. -- C’est pas dieu qui fait chier, c’est son criss de fan-club plein de cons - Parce que ça force à lire à l’envers. - Pourquoi? - Les gens qui répondent en haut du texte qu'ils citent. - C'est quoi la pire chose sur Usenet?

"Jean Naimard" <jean.naimard+Usenet@google-VosClaques.com> wrote in message news:Xns99F7D1E2B4DD2MangezTousDeLaMarde@64.192.187.7... >> politicians have justified higher, and ever higher taxes for it? They >> use this to control us. Health care should be a separate deduction on > > Ah, a libertarian wingnut! He's afraid of someone else "controlling" him. Nope, just not to chicken shit and willing to take care of myself. I don't need to pick other peoples pockets for my way in life. Nor am I a good little sheep and realize many Canadians view of health care is warped. Ainsi comment la santé va-t-elle dans la grande province d'assistance sociale?

> "Jean Naimard" <jean.naimard+Usenet@google-VosClaques.com> wrote: [....] >>One myth believed by many ignorant rednecks (american and canadian alike) >>is that the US system is superior. Well Done (WellDone@WellHoned.com) writes: > The US system is used routinely by Canadians, which kinda makes you > look like you're full of shit. (K): And the Canadian tax-subsidized system isn't being routinely plundered by hudreds of thousands of Americans? Who do you think holds all those medical cards 'that exceed the number of people living in any particular province'? I loved the media report on George W. Bush's visit to Canada - where his aides promptly left Bush's plane and headed to the nearest health clinics for their free flu shots.... the U.S. having run out of vaccine for their own population. Now, THAT's the pinnacle of an incompetent government looking to leech off their 'not so progressive' neighbour. """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" You don't have to fool all the people all of the time; you just have to fool enough to get elected. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Le 30 Nov 2007, "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> a écrit : >> Ah, a libertarian wingnut! He's afraid of someone else "controlling" >> him. > > Nope, just not to chicken shit and willing to take care of myself. I > don't need to pick other peoples pockets for my way in life. Nor am I > a good little sheep and realize many Canadians view of health care is > warped. Ah, a crypto-yankee libertarian. One of those primitive souls who do not realize that living in an advanced society will be slightly more restrictive than living in a cave. Since you object vehemently in having the State supply you with cheap and effective medical insurance because you don’t want to pay for other people’s healthcare, I suppose that you drive your car without insurance, because there is no way you should pay for other people’s accidents??? > Ainsi comment la sant‚ va-t-elle dans la grande province d'assistance > sociale? It goes very well, thank-you mister troll. -- C’est pas dieu qui fait chier, c’est son criss de fan-club plein de cons - Parce que ça force à lire à l’envers. - Pourquoi? - Les gens qui répondent en haut du texte qu'ils citent. - C'est quoi la pire chose sur Usenet?