(K): And they wonder why they can't get out of the low 30s in the polls?... __________________________ THE CANADIAN PRESS - October 30, 2007 GST cut would buy about one pizza a month for most buyers: economist OTTAWA - A pizza per month - that's about what most consumers could buy with another percentage-point reduction on the goods and services tax proposed Tuesday by the Conservatives. Along with personal income-tax cuts, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty proposed cutting the GST to five from six per cent starting Jan. 1. Economist Dale Orr of Global Insight Canada tracked spending patterns and forecasts to calculate average GST savings of $13 per month when the rate fell to six from seven per cent last year. That amount would double if Flaherty's proposal contained in a fiscal update passes a confidence vote in the House of Commons. If not, it could trigger an early federal election. Orr is among most economists who dismiss the GST reduction as a political gimmick that's as overrated as it is politically popular. They say it does little to spur economic growth or competitiveness while enticing more spending at a time of massive debt. "People can very carefully calculate how much they're saving, and it's really not that much," Orr said in an interview. Prices were sometimes raised to cancel out the GST savings after the first percentage point was cut starting July 1, 2006. Excise taxes on liquor and cigarettes were lifted so that, on balance, the GST cut wasn't reflected on such purchases, Orr said. Tuesday's fiscal update proposes raising the tobacco excise tax starting Jan. 1 to once again absorb the added one-per-cent cut. "The people who really say 'Wow, thank you very much Mr. Harper' are people who go out and buy $70,000 new automobiles," Orr says. "Then you're saving $700." That amount would jump to $1,400 under the new proposal. But if, like most people, you buy big-ticket items every few years then at best "you're talking literally nickels and dimes," Orr says. Still, Prime Minister Stephen Harper, himself a trained economist, likes to say that $26 a month or $312 a year is a tax cut people can actually see. Conservative support for a lower GST has also left embattled Liberal Leader Stephane Dion in the tricky position of railing against it. "Even a study by the Department of Finance argued that cutting the GST was the worst tax-reduction strategy for Canada," Dion said Monday in a speech in London, Ont. "For Canadians who would rather save a penny on a cup of coffee, the GST cut might work," he said. "At the end of the day, however, the vast majority of working Canadians would prefer to bring home a bigger paycheque." Still, Dion suggested last week that the struggling Liberals would not bring down the government over the issue. Orr and other financial observers would much prefer the Tories scrap further GST reductions in favour of broader, deeper tax cuts for individuals, families and businesses. It costs about $5.5 billion for each point the GST is lowered - a total of $11 billion if it comes down another percentage point. "Everybody likes lower taxes, but there's always an opportunity cost to these things," Orr said of the lost potential for social spending and other priorities. "If the federal government is going to give up another $5.5 billion a year, there are just better ways to give it up." That said, Ottawa is red-faced with an embarrassment of riches. The Finance Department says the federal surplus will hit $11.6 billion this fiscal year, even with the broad tax cuts factored in. The Tories plan to use $10 billion to pay down the federal debt. "Since the books were first balanced by the Liberals in 1997-98, over $100 billion has piled up in Ottawa as surplus money," says Adam Taylor of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. Bruce Cran of the Consumers Association of Canada describes how GST savings for most people "evaporated into the ether. "We don't believe there's much in it for consumers at all - especially at the lowest levels. It just never reaches us. "The Conservative politicians want it. I haven't heard the consumers saying 'Come give us a break on the GST."' Cran said he wants the appointment of a consumer affairs minister to handle buyers' concerns about everything from product recalls to generic drugs. """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" If we're going to end welfare, the rich should be the first to lose it. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Karen Gordon wrote: > (K): And they wonder why they can't get out of the low 30s in the > polls? Karen, you JUST got done whining that they only cut taxes for the rich. You have barely had time to swap the feet you have in your mouth and now you are whining again.

"Nobody" <not@home.anymore> wrote in message news:Xns99D9C1807BB131v2rt@204.153.245.131... > Karen Gordon wrote: > >> (K): And they wonder why they can't get out of the low 30s in the >> polls? > > Karen, you JUST got done whining that they only cut taxes for the rich. > You have barely had time to swap the feet you have in your mouth and > now you are whining again. The question is would these clowns turn down a free pizza? -- Terry Pearson Pro- Israel and proud of it http://www.therightpoint.ca Shaping Canada's Destiny ========================== "I can walk upright" ~Peter White -------------------------------------------------- Penny On Youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdt6wcK1cSQ ========================= Dumbski's obsession http://wildhorsedories.com/ctv.wmv The folks on Canadian politics are in unanimous agreement that Dumbski is an unemployed bum. ********************************************* Liberalism = Entitlement Culture= Corruption ------------------------------------------- There are some opinions so stupid, only socialists could hold them. ------------------------------------------- "It is as useless to argue with those who have renounced the use of reason as to administer medication to the dead." - Thomas Jefferson -----------------------------------------------------------

"Nobody" <not@home.anymore> wrote in message news:Xns99D9C1807BB131v2rt@204.153.245.131... > Karen Gordon wrote: > >> (K): And they wonder why they can't get out of the low 30s in the >> polls? > > Karen, you JUST got done whining that they only cut taxes for the rich. > You have barely had time to swap the feet you have in your mouth and > now you are whining again. Fool, GST cut helps everyone. In fact likely those with lower incomes benefit more as they spend more of their money as a percentage of income on cars and taxable items. Right down to your telephone bill.

"Tom P" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:5RQVi.1615$cy7.1099@newsfe18.lga... >I don't recall seeing a drop in gasoline prices after the last cut in the >GST. > > I don't understand why there is so much silence about the budget surplus. > Over the last year the dollar has risen 18% against the American dollar. > Since most of Canada's debt is in U.S. currency, that means Canada's debt > has fallen 18% as well. Since we are spending $32 billion per year on > interest charges, that means that the Feds have had a windfall surplus > this year of $6 billion on reduced interest payments. > > It's no wonder Harper wants to force an election. With the U.S. economy > going down the toilet, it won't be long before we end up getting hammered > as well. Actually the surplus is bigger than that. But it is not government cutbacks, as the government has never spent more money ever. But the income side has bloomed. Again, realizing more tax revenue than ever before. Higher energy prices mean more taxes for Ottawa. Add that some sectors like oil and gas, western manufacturing are actually paying corporate taxes. Unlike losers like Bombardier getting kickbacks and blood sucking. That is, they contribute to the tax burden unlike many central Canadian companies on the dole.

"Karen Gordon" <ar231@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message news:fg8hvu$5c2$1@theodyn.ncf.ca... > (K): And they wonder why they can't get out of the low 30s in the > polls?... and one has to wonder why Karen's NDP never reaches the 30's..

"Robert McKenzie" <rmk@cdnz.org> wrote in message news:1J5Wi.79395$%B2.73468@edtnps82... > > "Karen Gordon" <ar231@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message > news:fg8hvu$5c2$1@theodyn.ncf.ca... >> (K): And they wonder why they can't get out of the low 30s in the >> polls?... > > and one has to wonder why Karen's NDP never reaches the 30's.. It means Canada has promise that no more than 30% are plain up not Jack Taliban a quacking stupid.

"Dave Smith" <adavidsmith@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:4729E5FB.306E7D10@sympatico.ca... > Canuck57 wrote: > > >> GST cut helps everyone. In fact likely those with lower incomes benefit >> more as they spend more of their money as a percentage of income on cars >> and >> taxable items. Right down to your telephone bill. > > Considering that we pay GST on just about everything we pay for, it is a > move in the right direction. We never used to have sales tax here in > Ontario until about 45 years ago. It started at 3%, and it edged its way > up > to 8%. Then, thanks to Mulroney, we had the GST introduced at 7%, and if > it followed the pattern of PST, income tax, property and other taxes, it > would be climbing. It is refreshing to see a tax being decreased rather > than increased. > > Yes. I will be enjoying that 1% reduction. It is especially nice on top of > the 1% reduction we had last year, so that our GST tax burden has been > reduced by 2%. Government will expand to the limits that people let them. That is why one must vote right conservatism because center and left believe in ever bigger and more expensive government. Give it a few more years, PST will go to 10, 11,12% and beyond. But when people vote for a hack saw government, it will/can be rolled back. Look at government like a kid with a credit card that has your pocket paying for it.

ar231@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Karen Gordon) wrote in news:fg8hvu$5c2$1@theodyn.ncf.ca: > (K): And they wonder why they can't get out of the low 30s in the > polls?... __________________________ > > THE CANADIAN PRESS - October 30, 2007 > > GST cut would buy about one pizza a month for most buyers: economist > > It all depends on how much you spend and where you spend it. The tax relief is for consumers who buy in Canada and not to those who earn. You pay less tax on that pizza but if you bought a high ticket item, you get more pizzas. -- "Expect less from life and get more from it"